My Paul Taylor Bicycle Experience

11/14/14  OK, so where do we start? A lot of people know the story about Paul Taylor. Fantastic builder, terrible businessman!  Basically, over the past 4+ years, his reputation has gone from being one of the best new builders in the business to swindler, conman and worse!  His MO now is that you placed an order, submitted a deposit and hear nothing more. He must owe 10s if not 100s of people money, frames, parts. So what's my story?

How about we begin with this email. Back on April 29, 2014, I sent Paul Taylor the following email:

Hi Paul,

I hear you are back working on building frames again! That's great as you are an excellent builder!

Back in October 2011, I sent you my 56cm Paul Taylor breakaway frameset, through Tony Tom at A Bicycle Odyssey, for repair because the seat tube separated from the bottom bracket shell. It is a black frame with two gold colored panels. It also had a 27.4mm Dura Ace seatpost in it. You said it could be fixed pretty easily and was suppose to work on it.

It is now April 2014 and I have not heard back from you. Do you still have the frameset? If so, could you just send it back to me? Repaired or not. I will be happy to pay for shipping (COD). If you did any work, I would pay for your time too. Also, if you don't have the frameset, let me know. Either way, I would like to know what happened to it.

Let me know what you can do. I appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Brewster

For the next 7 months, I heard nothing. This was not new as I expected nothing since I hadn't heard from him in almost 3 years! I sent emails, tried calling and had Tony called/email him over those 3 years. I even threatened filing a lawsuit, but no response.

Note, I was serious about filing a small claim action and having it served on him. However, for my own piece of mind, I really didn't have time. With the girls and work, I really didn't feel like hassling.  Further, I found a deal on a 90s Litespeed Classic frame with serotta head tube extender ($400 for the frame!). Great deal and put all of spare parts and focus on getting that bike going. Other than a creaky seatpost, it works fine.

I guess the email was a last ditch attempt to get some attention from him. Well it worked!

On November 7, 2014, I got the following response from him:

Hi Brewster, Sorry it has taken what is an eternity to get back to you, I am finally getting back on my feet after some crazy divorce custody crap. Unfortunately I lost everything in my storage unit due to money issues, which your frame was apart of.

I would like to offer you a new frame custom built how ever you would like, time frame would be with in a month, FOR REAL!!!, please let me know if this would interest you as I would like to make things right.

Thanks, Paul

WTH?! Was this a mirage? A miracle? How could this be?!

So, after coming back down to earth, I thought rationally about it. Maybe it was a ruse? An effort to get some money out of me. Don't get me wrong, I've always said that if he would return my old frame, I would pay shipping, COD.

So, the first thing I did was call Tony. I read the response to him. We both laughed. He said go for it. What did I have to lose?

So, the next day I sent him the following:

Hi Paul,

How are you?! Thanks for responding! Yes, I would be interested in another frame. I was actually looking to get another cross frameset with lugs. Do you still make frames with lugs. I recall seeing a couple of very nice lugged steel frames by you with some beautiful long thin lugs. Could you make something like that? Let me know what you can do. Also, do you need some measurements? May be we should talk?

Thanks,

Brewster

At this point, I emailed William and Lawrence and both were very surprised! They gave me some good advice - stay away from disc brakes - too heavy (yeah, like I'm a lightweight!), but more importantly, they thought disc brakes was an overkill for the type of riding we do.

I can see riding thru dirt trails and roads, perhaps even wet ones. But I don't see riding in thick mud (hey is it going to rain enough to get that muddy?!) or any type of condition that may require disc brakes. Besides, I'm old-school and am wary of all this new-fangled technology/products that have come out. In other words, I'm the old guy that will tell you to get off my lawn - if we had enough water to have one....

On that same day, November 7, 2014, Paul emailed me three times! The first email said:

Hi Brewster, Ist been a crazy couple of years, just now getting back on the horse. There are some great lug options, and tubing to go with, I would need measurements from you. My cell number is 406-220-3639 and would definitely like to talk to you before building. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make things right.

Thanks,Paul

The next two emails were pictures of his work and a link to his new website:

http://taylorbicycles.blogspot.com/

I responded that I needed to get measured and will call him next week.

I then emailed the rest of the boys and here's a sampling of my responses to them:

Paul Taylor has a rep to uphold -HAHAHA! That's funny. The guy has the worst reputation of all the builders in existence. Do a google seach, you can't get much lower than him.

When I bought my frame from him in like 2008, his reputation was still good. He was even being groomed to take over for Ron Cooper. Paul can build a steel frame as well as anyone. But the guy sucks as a businessman. Basically, he takes deposits on frames and never delivers! I know he owes Tony big time. I'm still waiting to hear back from Paul, so we will see if he's really trying to come back.

On the other hand, he has been working. Tony said one of the guys who works in the shop got a frame back last week to their surprise! There's also his website:

http://taylorbicycles.blogspot.com/

What's it going to look like? Good question. I haven't had a chance to talk with him, but lugged steel frame and fork. I asked for a 1.1.25" headtube so if I want I could swap in a carbon fork like an Enve. I'm still thinking about parts. If I go mechanical, its Campy 11 all the way. I like electronics and still considering ultegra di2. Maybe something like this would be nice:

On November 11, 2014, I scheduled time to meet with Tony. After spending an hour there, I ended up with these measurements:

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=5fae065b7d&view=att&th=149a5834772921d9&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_i2f37m5s0&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P_tfxPv75lRdO_4bd7RiQ1i&sadet=1416260470956&sads=AJRvlLX7wNoPKw_6LV-26ZyCuM8

Hmm, not sure if that links works? But if so it shows all the measurements that would make me a nice cross bike!

On November 12, I got an email from Paul to call him to get things moving! I talked to Paul and here's a quick summary:

Wow, just talked to Paul. The guy is really gung ho on trying to make things right. His goal is to make this look "awesome" so that the word gets out that he's back!

For lugs, I'm going to send him the picture of what I want (Ellis bike)and he's going to send me some samples of what he has.

For tubing, he likes Columbus and the frame will be either Spirit or LIfe! Both good stuff from what I recall. We also talked about oversized tubing since this is going to be a cross bike and he likes 1 and 1/8" headtube for more durabilty.

He also talked about paint and wants me to do whatever. He said, don't hold back! He's going to hand paint his logo so that when I get it, I won't be able to feel it.

This all sounds unreal, so I'm just going to be patient and wait and see....

On Nov 14, I sent Paul the following email:

Paul,

It was nice talking to you! As we discussed, here's the link to a frame with some lugs similar to what I remember you did on one of your earlier frames, some very nice long thin point lugs:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=100927

I also note that this Ellis frame is designed for di2 and has a carbon fork. So probably what's missing is a fork crown. Have you done any frames for di2? Since I haven't decided on what parts to use, di2 might be interesting.

Let me know if you can make these kind of lugs? Or if you have any alternative.

Thanks,

Brewster

Then William and Lawrence started giving me advice about paint. William likes the modern look and Lawrence thinks now is time to be bold and don't hold back!

I also asked Paul about lugs similar to what Bruce Gordon offers on his bikes. Paul said he could easily do that (add little holes in the lugs) on any lugs.

11/19/14 - With me being sick, I haven't had time to post. However, William has been busy! Yesterday, he sent me this email:

brewster, the images of lugged frames are pretty classical, one color on the tubes and a different color on the lugs. this is a mix of the two:

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/nahbs-2011-engin-cycles-fillet-brazed-steel-road-bike01.jpg

this steelman is just one color, but imagine a darker blue with gun metal lugs. some of the tubes could also have a the gun metal cut in with accents of a light blue.

http://www.steelmancycles.com/Jeff's_lugged_CC.html

 My response to William:

I love it! That Steelman cross frame is exactly what I've been looking for!  The only thing is I wanted the blue to be a little darker. So, I chose BMW Estoril Blue (paint code B45):

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609640&d=1321639240

I like the lugs to be gun metal gray,and since the lugs will also have holes in them, I could paint the inside of the hole as either white or red. I've also asked for the playing card tangs on the fork crown like your bike! I plan to have those painted either white or red or both?!  William has the playing cards on the steel fork for his Cooper!

I then sent PT the following email:

Paul,

I think we are getting close! I appreciate that you can add an extension to the lug to get help raise the stem! I'm an old guy, so that helps :)

Also, I think I found a paint scheme! Here's a Steelman cross bike that I really like that is blue with gray lugs:

http://www.steelmancycles.com/Jeff%27s_lugged_CC.html

I would like slight brighter blue that BMW puts on its cars called Estoril Blue, BMW paint code B45, that looks like this:

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=609640&d=1321639240

Would you be able to paint the lugs gun metal gray? If so, that would be a nice combo. Further, I think your name on the downtube in white would look nice too. Moreover, since I'm asking for Bruce Gordon/Brent Steelman-style thin long point lugs with holes in them, would you also be able to paint the inside of the holes red? Finally, I also asked for a fork crown with playing card tangs would you be able to paint the card symbols in red too? Sort of like this fork:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wEIp3zbZbJw/Tzr-lrVoSWI/AAAAAAAAAfU/qgH0DUu-nGs/s1600/della+santa+fork+crown+silver.jpg

This sounds like a lot of work! Let me know if this is possible! If not, I can scale back.

William then sent me another email with some sketches!

Brewster, see attached sketches...go with the dark BMW blue for most of the downtube and chainstays and the tips of the fork and seatstays and top of the toptube. Light blue (like the one on the steelman) for the fork, headtube, seatstays and most of the toptube. gunmetal for the lugs and dropouts. yellow accents....I think yellow works best with blues. at the cablestops, cut to dark blue. Modern paint with classic lugs!!! I like the block letters on this: http://taylorbicycles.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2014-07-03T07:49:00-07:00&max-results=7

light blue letters on dark blue or gunmetal on dark blue.

true that breezer dropouts are a pain, but they provide room to weld the stays and they're light and stiff, there is just one position to close the qr.

I don't know how to attach sketches here, but they're very impressive!  Basically, two-tone paint with some intricate detail works around the lugs. He likes blue with yellow trimming (must be a Cal thing - Go Bears!)

Finally, I responded to William and Lawrence and providee yet another option on paint:

Sorry guys, just got out of an early meeting. I actually like the fancy paint scheme, but am not sure Paul can do that! Remember, the goal here is to get a frame back. In my mind, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible and work within his parameters, e.g., I was thinking TT S3 tubing, he offered Columbus Spirit/Life; I like vertical dropouts (non-breezer style), he offered those new breezer-type with replaceable dropouts.

I actually conveyed to him that I like a frame like the steelman with BMW Estoril blue and gun metal gray lugs. He's willing to drill holes in the lugs ala Bruce Gordon/Steelman and I would like that to be red! I also also for the playing cards on the fork tangs like what William has on his Cooper steel fork to be painted red too.

I'm planning on sending the drawing to Paul as an alternative to see if he can do it. I still like a white decal, but with the block lettering as oppose to script.

Interestingly, the other color pattern I was thinking about before seeing William's drawings is to make it look like Cal's football helmet - flat blue paint with gold (or red) lettering:

http://s1.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/24-new-cal-football-helmets-.jpeg

BMW also offers this color on their cars, its called Frozen Blue or something like that:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/gallery/BMW-New-York-Auto-Show/large/BMW-New-York-Auto-Show-159.jpg

I'll email Paul and let you know what he says.

So I sent the two drawings to Paul as an alternative to see what is possible.

I also sent Paul some additional questions that I emailed Paul:

1. cable guides and fittings - can he copy Steelman cross style, e.g., cables on top of top tube and down side of seat stays?

2. fork - curve, not straight

3. downtube lettering - white in block, not script (see link from William)

One thing I had to remind William and Lawrence, the goal:

The goal here is to get a frame back. In my mind, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible and work within his parameters, e.g., I was thinking TT S3 tubing, he offered Columbus Spirit/Life - done; I like vertical dropouts (non-breezer style), he offered those new breezer-type with replaceable dropouts - done.

Hopefully, he can duplicate the paint without much effort!

11/25/14 - Five days with no word from PT. Started getting concerned. Then On 11/24/14, got an email that PT thinks he has everything and is ready to go! Plan to start working on the frame this week! He also plans to be here in the area in the middle of December and will bring the frame with him!

I emailed back that I'm looking forward to seeing what he builds, but I still wanted to think about the paint. I also asked about the tubing whether it will be Columbus Spirit or Life. PT said it will probably be 50/50.

Today, got another email that he is ready and will review everything tonight. If there are questions, he will either email or call.  This is looking really, really good!

11/28/14 - On 11/26/14, got an email from PT that he was going to review everything and if there were any questions would contact me. Haven't heard back in 3 days, so I presume all is a go and he should be  starting the building process. The only thing is I'm still thinking about paint.

After thinking about it, except for the lugs, the goal has been to try and keep this as simple as possible - no disc brakes, will go with v-brakes; no d2, will go with mechanical shifting; no TT S3 tubing, will go with whatever Columbus Spirit/Life tubing he has; so the paint will be simple too. I would like steelman cross bike pattern - gun metal gray lugs with BMW Estoril Blue paint (paint code #B45). The downtube lettering should be in white with block letters. Finally, the only thing I haven't decided was whether to have the lug holes painted yellow or red. I keep going back and forth. Let's see what PT comes up with in a few days....:)